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Kinesis
#41
(2019-10-15, 05:06 PM)Carsten Wrote: There is one thing about Kinesis that is violating your own principles Hugues and that is that it's centralized. Don't keep your money at exchanges. Same here or what? Don't keep your money at Kinesis.... I haven't studied it enough but I believe it's running on the ETH blockchain and in that case you could have your KAU, but if Kinesis don't exist as a company the KAU are worthless.

That's more or less correct. The same goes for banks. If you buy gold or silver with a bank and the bank goes bankrupt, same problem.
But if Kinesis does not exist anymore for one or more strange reasons, the KAU will no longer exist, but the gold you purchased is still there and is still your posession. It is kept in vaults that are independant from the company KINESIS. You still could claim it and have it delivered at your doorstep. You would no longer be able to do transactions with that gold or silver as means of payment because the KAU would be gone.

Exchanges can be hacked but your private keys of your wallet not if you keep them safe.
What is this thing that builds our dreams, yet slips away from us?

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#42
I don't know how to say this otherwise that you put trust in a single company claiming to have gold/silver in vaults, but no videos or photos show that to be true.

I have gone through the KYC and was about to transfer money to their Australian bank. Then the first problem occurred. They don't have an IBAN number. The help was kind of "unprofessional".

Next thing that ring a red bell for me is that the company is that they are registered on the Cayman Islands. That is really only if you have something to hide.

I would advise anyone to invest with funds that they can afford to lose.

Sorry Hugues. I'm not with you on this one, but who knows. You could be right. I decided to NOT invest in this one at all. KAU, KVT and whatever it is called are not on exchanges other than their own.
Cardano is the most promising 3 gen. crypto right now.


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#43
On the global market the price for 1 g of gold is around 53 USD. On Kinesis you can buy 1 KAU (1 g) for ~ 47 USD. Now that would be a good deal to buy 10 kg and get it out physically and sell it on the global market..... but I guess it's not possible. Otherwise this would be a money making machine.
Cardano is the most promising 3 gen. crypto right now.


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#44
(2019-10-15, 06:55 PM)Hugues Wrote:
(2019-10-15, 05:06 PM)Carsten Wrote: There is one thing about Kinesis that is violating your own principles Hugues and that is that it's centralized. Don't keep your money at exchanges. Same here or what? Don't keep your money at Kinesis.... I haven't studied it enough but I believe it's running on the ETH blockchain and in that case you could have your KAU, but if Kinesis don't exist as a company the KAU are worthless.

That's more or less correct. The same goes for banks. If you buy gold or silver with a bank and the bank goes bankrupt, same problem.
But if Kinesis does not exist anymore for one or more strange reasons, the KAU will no longer exist, but the gold you purchased is still there and is still your posession. It is kept in vaults that are independant from the company KINESIS. You still could claim it and have it delivered at your doorstep. You would no longer be able to do transactions with that gold or silver as means of payment because the KAU would be gone.
You still could claim it and have it delivered at your doorstep.
Two questions - how can you claim it if the Kinesis has gone down - there is no proof of ownership.
Secondly - what is to stop Mr Kinesis selling some gold to prop up his company if things are looking bad?
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#45
(2019-10-16, 12:49 PM)BobBobert Wrote:
(2019-10-15, 06:55 PM)Hugues Wrote:
(2019-10-15, 05:06 PM)Carsten Wrote: There is one thing about Kinesis that is violating your own principles Hugues and that is that it's centralized. Don't keep your money at exchanges. Same here or what? Don't keep your money at Kinesis.... I haven't studied it enough but I believe it's running on the ETH blockchain and in that case you could have your KAU, but if Kinesis don't exist as a company the KAU are worthless.

That's more or less correct. The same goes for banks. If you buy gold or silver with a bank and the bank goes bankrupt, same problem.
But if Kinesis does not exist anymore for one or more strange reasons, the KAU will no longer exist, but the gold you purchased is still there and is still your posession. It is kept in vaults that are independant from the company KINESIS. You still could claim it and have it delivered at your doorstep. You would no longer be able to do transactions with that gold or silver as means of payment because the KAU would be gone.
You still could claim it and have it delivered at your doorstep.
Two questions - how can you claim it if the Kinesis has gone down - there is no proof of ownership.
Secondly - what is to stop Mr Kinesis selling some gold to prop up his company if things are looking bad?
If Kinesis is gone you stil have you KAU/KAG on the blockchain. Just like BTC or other coins there is no need of a company behind it. They are on the blockcahin and can't vanish. Each KAU represents 1 gr of gold, each KAG represents 10 ounces of silver. So you can claim it because the KAU and KAG are in your wallet.

Kinesis cannot prop op the gold (silver) because they have no proof of ownership. The gold or silver only leaves the vaults when someone requests a withdrawal and this is controled by blockchain transactions.
What is this thing that builds our dreams, yet slips away from us?

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#46
It all sounds good, but how do you (we) know that there is gold/silver for every Kau/Kag?

It's still the company that has to make sure that's the case. I wonder how they can do it for a price that is 10% below the other prices for real gold and silver.

If Kinesis is gone then yes you have your tokens but they will be worthless. The tokens won't get access to the vaults if they really exists.

Sorry I'm just trying to ask the questions that prevents you to invest money in the wrong projects. We have done that multiple times already. Things sounded good but was wrong.


Examples: Rimbit, Minexcoin, Amon, Dash Green, Tokenpay and Efin Dex.
Cardano is the most promising 3 gen. crypto right now.


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#47
They sent me a video last night by email but I could not watch it unless I logged in. I had no idea of the logins I used so it will need to wait until tomorrow/weekend to watch it.

I am a bit lost by the tech stuff here. If I have the KAU/KAG in my wallet, that is only useful if the blockchain is still running surely. So whilst Kinesis can go down, it does not mean that the blockchain goes down too. And whilst it is in the users initial interest to keep the chain alive until they recover their gold, it pretty soon will not be once they have their gold etc. Once that chain goes down there is no hope of recovering your gold.

Presumably they (Kinesis) do have access to the gold though. I buy $1k worth of gold and it is in the Kinesis vault (or a 3rd party vault). I can buy stuff with my Kinesis credit card which presumably means that at the end of the month, they can deduct say $100 from my pile. So they can go to the vault and get my $100 worth of gold. Presumably they need to use the blockchain to show that they are only entitled to $100 from my pile and not $100 from lots of piles.
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#48
KAU/KAG and the Kinesis Velocity Token (KVT) all run as smart contracts on the Ethereum blockchain. It won't go down for sure.

They sent a mail today saying:

"MPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

However, there has been an unforeseen complication which has caused a delay in the processing of non-fiat deposits (KAU, KAG, ETH and KVT).

Any cryptocurrency deposits made in the last 72 hours will not be lost, but will take at least as long as 24 hours from now, before clearing.

This is something we are resolving on our side; please do not be concerned if you have made any deposits within the last 72 hours that haven’t appeared, your transfer will not be lost, there is simply a delay in processing these deposits.

We are working to resolve this issue and do apologise for any inconvenience this may cause. "

So the company is alive, but I still need to see the vaults and preferably their entire budget before I will put money into this. You have to trust Kinesis to actually buy gold/silver for each Kau/Kag you buy. It's so easy to ignore doing that since it's not build into the smart contract that a scan or similar of the actual gold is included.
Cardano is the most promising 3 gen. crypto right now.


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#49
(2019-10-17, 01:08 PM)BobBobert Wrote: They sent me a video last night by email but I could not watch it unless I logged in. I had no idea of the logins I used so it will need to wait until tomorrow/weekend to watch it.

I am a bit lost by the tech stuff here.  If I have the KAU/KAG in my wallet, that is only useful if the blockchain is still running surely.  So whilst Kinesis can go down, it does not mean that the blockchain goes down too. And whilst it is in the users initial interest to keep the chain alive until they recover their gold, it pretty soon will not be once they have their gold etc. Once that chain goes down there is no hope of recovering your gold.

Presumably they (Kinesis) do have access to the gold though.  I buy $1k worth of gold and it is in the Kinesis vault (or a 3rd party vault).  I can buy stuff with my Kinesis credit card which presumably means that at the end of the month, they can deduct say $100 from my pile.  So they can go to the vault and get my $100 worth of gold.  Presumably they need to use the blockchain to show that they are only entitled to $100 from my pile and not $100 from lots of piles.

That's the way it works.
If you worry about the blockchain going down... well never go into crypto.
If you worry about the internet going down... well never do bank transactions online.
If you worry electricity plants going down... wel don't buy lamps and other electrical stuff.
If you worry the planet going down... wel don't make kids

(2019-10-17, 01:30 PM)Carsten Wrote: KAU/KAG and the Kinesis Velocity Token (KVT) all run as smart contracts on the Ethereum blockchain. It won't go down for sure.

They sent a mail today saying:

"MPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

However, there has been an unforeseen complication which has caused a delay in the processing of non-fiat deposits (KAU, KAG, ETH and KVT).

Any cryptocurrency deposits made in the last 72 hours will not be lost, but will take at least as long as 24 hours from now, before clearing.

This is something we are resolving on our side; please do not be concerned if you have made any deposits within the last 72 hours that haven’t appeared, your transfer will not be lost, there is simply a delay in processing these deposits.

We are working to resolve this issue and do apologise for any inconvenience this may cause.  "

So the company is alive, but I still need to see the vaults and preferably their entire budget before I will put money into this. You have to trust Kinesis to actually buy gold/silver for each Kau/Kag you buy. It's so easy to ignore doing that since it's not build into the smart contract that a scan or similar of the actual gold is included.
Good idea Carsten.
Try to get the information about their vaults and budget.

FYI

https://youtu.be/ZTbp6UNZRxU
What is this thing that builds our dreams, yet slips away from us?

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#50
Good points Hugues! I am trying to understand their model and I think I have a grasp on it. I missed that this was on ETH chain as well.

I think that this is a good idea, so thanks for helping me here, but I am still thinking that there is a degree of trust here that they actually buy gold when I buy their tokens.
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