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Ripple
#21
I have some on Bitstamp. They don't use Tether as USD.

I also use the Toast Wallet for storage of larger amounts. https://toastwallet.com/

What do you use?
Cardano is the most promising 3 gen. crypto right now.


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#22
(2018-02-18, 03:18 PM)Carsten Wrote: I have some on Bitstamp. They don't use Tether as USD.

I also use the Toast Wallet for storage of larger amounts. https://toastwallet.com/

What do you use?

You realy can read my mind. I just downloaded toast about 5 hours ago.
It looks a great wallet, with great security.

According to my post this morning I decided to completely change my investment strategy.
I will keep Ripple and Cardano for the long term investment. All my other investments in crypto will be used to buy new Ripple and Cardano. Of course I keep C20 because they include Cardano and Ripple.
What is this thing that builds our dreams, yet slips away from us?

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#23
Some things to consider with Ripple :
XRP is not shares in the company Ripple
If XRP were to be valued at $10 all the Ripple in existence would be worth nearly 1 trillion dollars.
As a comparison, Amazon has a market cap of 700 billion.
A share in Amazon is a chunk of the company itself, Xrp is not a share of Ripple the company.
Most of the transactions that Ripple facilitates are done through this technology : https://ripple.com/solutions/process-payments/
xCurrent doesn't necessarily need xrp to send money.
Many banks are working on their own blockchain technologies
Banks will be happy to use xrp as long as it is given to them free or at a big discount. If they have to buy Ripple at market rates, they will refuse to use xrp. So Ripple would be forced to sell their reserves at a steep discount. The banks could then just sell the xrp at a huge profit to the crypto enthusiasts.
Meanwhile, SWIFT is working on blockchain technology and already has the next version for real time payments up and running.

XRP could keep going up and up, based on four things, it's cheap per individual unit, it's fast, scalable and famous.
Most of its current value is from speculation based on what if the banks decide to use it en masse.

Ripple is a great tech company, but so is Microsoft. I don't see Windows being worth more than the company Microsoft, do you?
Ripple the company so far has raised less than 100 million dollars, while all the Ripple in existence is worth over 100 billion dollars.
Microsoft has a market cap of over 700 billion dollars, with its main product, Windows, used by 1500 million people.
Windows can cost anywhere between $20 to $200 depending on the version.
If we assume an average price of $100 for all copies of Windows in existence, it gives us a figure of $150 billion for the worth of Windows.

I don't see how a token without anywhere near the utility of Microsoft Windows can be worth 100 to maybe even 1000 times its parent company's valuation.

Windows cannot be forked, but XRP can. And has. And the token which first forked Xrp is worth over $8 billion for now, although it has significant differences these days.

Here's a fun fact : Ripple Labs themselves believed 100 xrp wouldn't be worth much more than $1 by mid 2017.

It may be a great technology, but it is not a great technology that is worth more than $100 billion.
There are technologies like raiblocks and iota which do fee free transactions.
Non decentralised systems can easily do 1000s of transactions a second and are far more scalable than decentralised systems.
Flashcoin, for example, which is a centralised litecoin fork, can do 25000 transactions per second.
And then there is the partnerships that Ripple has. Let's not forget that these partnerships came about through the giving away and discounting of xrp.

How many of these partners are going to buy Ripple at double figures, triple figures, quadruple figures?

It's the banks who are the real customers of Ripple labs, the rest is of us are just here for hodling, or in the worst case, bag holding.

Ripple doesn't give any true utility that stellar or raiblocks (now Nano) do not.

If investing in Ripple, you should be fully aware that it is future price speculation and not current utility that is the driving force behind xrp's current valuation.

I see Nano's vision of "unbanking the banked " come to fruition before Ripple's vision of "banking for banks".
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#24
(2018-02-18, 07:35 PM)Jacob Wrote: Some things to consider with Ripple :
XRP is not shares in the company Ripple
If XRP were to be valued at $10 all the Ripple in existence would be worth nearly 1 trillion dollars.
As a comparison, Amazon has a market cap of 700 billion.
A share in Amazon is a chunk of the company itself, Xrp is not a share of Ripple the company.
Most of the transactions that Ripple facilitates are done through this technology : https://ripple.com/solutions/process-payments/
xCurrent doesn't necessarily need xrp to send money.
Many banks are working on their own blockchain technologies
Banks will be happy to use xrp as long as it is given to them free or at a big discount. If they have to buy Ripple at market rates, they will refuse to use xrp. So Ripple would be forced to sell their reserves at a steep discount. The banks could then just sell the xrp at a huge profit to the crypto enthusiasts.
Meanwhile, SWIFT is working on blockchain technology and already has the next version for real time payments up and running.

XRP could keep going up and up, based on four things, it's cheap per individual unit, it's fast, scalable and famous.
Most of its current value is from speculation based on what if the banks decide to use it en masse.

Ripple is a great tech company, but so is Microsoft. I don't see Windows being worth more than the company Microsoft, do you?
Ripple the company so far has raised less than 100 million dollars, while all the Ripple in existence is worth over 100 billion dollars.
Microsoft has a market cap of over 700 billion dollars, with its main product, Windows, used by 1500 million people.
Windows can cost anywhere between $20 to $200 depending on the version.
If we assume an average price of $100 for all copies of Windows in existence, it gives us a figure of $150 billion for the worth of Windows.

I don't see how a token without anywhere near the utility of Microsoft Windows can be worth 100 to maybe even 1000 times its parent company's valuation.

Windows cannot be forked, but XRP can. And has. And the token which first forked Xrp is worth over $8 billion for now, although it has significant differences these days.

Here's a fun fact : Ripple Labs themselves believed 100 xrp wouldn't be worth much more than $1 by mid 2017.

It may be a great technology, but it is not a great technology that is worth more than $100 billion.
There are technologies like raiblocks and iota which do fee free transactions.
Non decentralised systems can easily do 1000s of transactions a second and are far more scalable than decentralised systems.
Flashcoin, for example, which is a centralised litecoin fork, can do 25000 transactions per second.
And then there is the partnerships that Ripple has. Let's not forget that these partnerships came about through the giving away and discounting of xrp.

How many of these partners are going to buy Ripple at double figures, triple figures, quadruple figures?

It's the banks who are the real customers of Ripple labs, the rest is of us are just here for hodling, or in the worst case, bag holding.

Ripple doesn't give any true utility that stellar or raiblocks (now Nano) do not.

If investing in Ripple, you should be fully aware that it is future price speculation and not current utility that is the driving force behind xrp's current valuation.

I see Nano's vision of "unbanking the banked " come to fruition before Ripple's vision of "banking for banks".
jacob, this is a great and fascinating explaining. But it is not only mathematical comparisons with other companies.
I believe we can discuss this for hours and hours. each of us has his own vision about this matter. let's wait and see.
What is this thing that builds our dreams, yet slips away from us?

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#25
"Ripple doesn't give any true utility that stellar or raiblocks (now Nano) do not.

If investing in Ripple, you should be fully aware that it is future price speculation and not current utility that is the driving force behind xrp's current valuation."

What do you mean by the first statement?

Regarding the second statement. Almost any coin in crypto now is rated just by speculation.
Cardano is the most promising 3 gen. crypto right now.


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#26
Professor Hugues. Did you sell your MNX and are not going to invest in AMON as you said sold everything for XRP and Cardano???
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#27
(2018-02-19, 01:12 AM)cta102 Wrote: Professor Hugues. Did you sell your MNX and are not going to invest in AMON as you said sold everything for XRP and Cardano???

Nope. I didn't sell my MNX. Mnx is what I need for future investments. I am going to use my interests to do future investments.
And, yes; Amon is still on my list for investment.
So on march 1st I will get AMON.
What is this thing that builds our dreams, yet slips away from us?

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#28
That is my plan too..to use some of the monthly MNX interest to purchase new coins/tokens

And continue to grow my MNX stash.
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#29
Jacob I was also thinking that your explanation is fine, but flawed. Ripple can be worth as much as the market is ready to pay. Bitcoin is a good example of a coin that has no company behind the coin but still it now have a market cap of $183,784,965,660. I don't know how many companies are worth that much, but I'm sure it's only very few.

Ripple can be what Bitcoin is today since it's much faster and much more scalable. The same is true for Cardano that has an even better technology behind the coin and is also very promising. What happens is up to the market.
Cardano is the most promising 3 gen. crypto right now.


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#30
(2018-02-18, 10:59 PM)Carsten Wrote: "Ripple doesn't give any true utility that stellar or raiblocks (now Nano) do not.

If investing in Ripple, you should be fully aware that it is future price speculation and not current utility that is the driving force behind xrp's current valuation."

What do you mean by the first statement?

Regarding the second statement.  Almost any coin in crypto now is rated just by speculation.

My apologies. I've typed RaiBlocks instead of OmiseGO. Where I've written RaiBlocks (Nano), it should be OmiseGO.

I had RaiBlocks (an exceptional fee-less crypto) on my mind, because I am thinking of buying some after the exchange hack and its subsequent price drop. Sorry for the confusion.

OmiseGO will be able to handle many times the transactions per second that Ripple does. And unlike Ripple, it will facilitate the inter-transfer of crypto, fiat, flybuys points, loyalty tokens. You name it, it will be able to handle it.

There is talk of 1 Million plus transactions per second and even 1 Billion simultaneous users. Not sure how that is possible, but if they even get 10% of that, it will cater for all the planet's remittance needs.

Here is a speed comparison of what OmiseGO will be able to achieve after Plasma is implemented:

[Image: qnthcgvzlmg01.gif]
Source: Reddit

Ripple's mission to be a solution provider for banks has indirect competition from projects like OmiseGO which want to provide banking services while circumventing banks.

With OmiseGO, there are no entities with massive amounts of the crypto who would want to manipulate prices and have the ability to do so.

It currently has a market cap of less than 2 Billion with about 140 Million Coins Total.

Ripple, on the other hand has almost 100 billion coins Total with 39 Billion in Circulating Supply.

It is of significance that the remaining nearly 61 Billion XRP are all owned by one entity.

What about the 39 Billion? A lot of those are owned by Banks.
Besides bank ownership of XRP, very few owners account for the vast majority of ownership:
The top 13 accounts hold over 73 Billion XRP
The top 31 accounts hold over 85 Billion XRP

Even the original founds who gave themselves 20 Billion XRP at the very start, have no real reason to hold onto the XRP as the price goes up.
Why? Because XRP is currency which they issued themselves which can be exchanged for spendable currency. As long as they keep their assets in XRP, their net worth doesn't mean anything. XRP are not shares in Ripple Labs. If and when the company floats its stock, XRP holders are highly unlikely to receive shares in the company.

If XRP were to hit the $20 mark, Jed McCaleb and Chris Larsen would be the world's richest men. Compare these two to people like Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet. What exactly have these two done to have a total monetary net worth larger than these 3 world beaters?

If XRP were to hit the $100 mark, Jed McCaleb and Chris Larsen would each have a net worth of over $500 Billion dollars.
If XRP were to hit the $200 mark, Jed McCaleb and Chris Larsen would each have a net worth of over $1 Trillion dollars.
At this stage, XRP itself, which is little more than a forkable secure messaging system, would have a market cap of $20 Trillion dollars.

Are these numbers realistically achievable?

It will be a long time before the vested XRP with founders, foundations and employees is all completely sold. This will keep the price of Ripple down for many years.

The big question is, "Is the Ripple mission a worthy cause?" Surely there are more noble endeavors being worked on than making transactions cheaper and faster for banks? Is this what the cryptocurrency world is about? By investing in Ripple, we shackle ourselves to the same institutions that have kept the vast majority of the world's citizens in shackles for centuries.

Do we seriously believe that the banks will purchase XRP from citizen holders in order to transact global remittances? Besides the automatic burn of fees, that is actually the main mechanism by which we can expect future price gains. Central Banks are in the business of manipulating the money supply in order to issue their own debt-currency. I don't think they are going to change their centuries-old gameplan and start buying currency from the masses.

Are the banks going to pass on savings to consumers? Probably not significantly.

A decentralized, superior cryptocurrency (OmiseGO) which promises to "Unbank the Banked", is a finer cause, in my opinion, than a secure ledger for banking corporations to become more efficient and make bigger profits.

(2018-02-19, 09:48 AM)Carsten Wrote: Jacob I was also thinking that your explanation is fine, but flawed. Ripple can be worth as much as the market is ready to pay. Bitcoin is a good example of a coin that has no company behind the coin but still it now have a market cap of $183,784,965,660. I don't know how many companies are worth that much, but I'm sure it's only very few.

Ripple can be what Bitcoin is today since it's much faster and much more scalable. The same is true for Cardano that has an even better technology behind the coin and is also very promising. What happens is up to the market.

I agree that Cardano, if it fulfills on its promise could get to where bitcoin is and beyond. It has many things going for it, especially choice of programming language for a crypto.

As far as Ripple is concerned, the only people paying market value for it is people like us. The banks wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole if they had to pay market value for it. So we will have this strange situation for many years, that the people who actually use it will gain it at a discount, while the people who have no use for it will be those buying at a premium as an investment.

There are many cryptos which are far more scalable than Ripple and some which are cheaper at the same time: example: Credits, Raiblocks, OmiseGO. These are actually intended for use by everyday people, rather than banks.

I do think there is a chance for Ripple to overtake Bitcoin, perhaps early as this year. This might even happen as Bitcoin does significant improvements, while Ripple just makes announcements with no significant innovation.

The thing about Bitcoin, is that if you own a part of an overall appreciating asset over time. Anyone who invests in Bitcoin is investing in what you hold.

Ripple has many big institutional investors, but they are invested in Ripple Labs, not in XRP. None of the investors got XRP in return, they received equity in Ripple Labs. So the investors don't truly care about the value of XRP, they care about the status of Ripple Labs.

So we have the situation where if you hold Ripple, no amount of investment in Ripple Labs actually affect what you hold. Instead, you are hoping that one day a generous bank will buy it off you at then market price.
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